Woodside Launch Etiquette.

[gussy11]

On super busy days, it would tickle me pink if the paragliders would organize themselves into a que that doesn't involve plugging up the edges of the launch where the hang gliders setup.

When a gets ready to launch, they take up about the same space or a little bit more room than a typical glider airframe . But in que, they literally need ONE sq. Meter of room. It takes about 1 min. to create your wall and double check your lines. When you step up to the crest of the hill, nobody wants to see good cycles get wasted, so be ready to GTFO the mountain. A good way to show that you are ready for the que, is to have your foil bundled up beside you with your helmet on. Do not line up on the east edge for the que!

It makes sense that an airframe that cannot be instantly rolled up into a ball and placed beside the pilot, be considerate enough and setup away from the busy gaggle of other eager birds. The best way to not be a nuisance to the rest of the comrades is to setup on the edges.

When it's busy up there, keep your bags off the edges! East edge near the cliff and north edge against the trees, are great places for a paraglider or voyeur to see the excitement, but are squarely in a setup zone. Bags/lawn chairs/vagrants/ravers and Karens will be asked to move.

The edges of launch have never been marked, and maybe that needs to change just to make it a little more obvious for occasional pilots visiting the area. I think with the addition of the new mats, a simple 2 meter buffer line along the edge might help, but I still don't mind asking people to move. The same as I would if a bunch of lost Jeeps decide to plug up the launch access while they check if their clinometers work. DONT BE THAT GUY!

[tonyev]

I am a PG pilot and even I feel your frustration here.
To see pilots spreading out their wings and sorting lines before they are even in their harness is super-rookie. Many pilots seem to have no idea

But, many pilots are newbies and haven't been properly educated on launch etiquette or how to get ready efficiently in a small space. Others are focused on conditions, the social scene or just nervous, and are not aware they are I'm the way.

I tell my students to put their bags around the edges to not be in the way of pilots ready to launch, but there are very rarely HG pilots there at the time.

Hangies usually don't show up for hours after the first PG launch of the day and the entire area can be overrun before you guys are even driving up. It's going to be even more crowded now with the newly formed Tandem consortium and shuttle service.

That being said, a bit of polite conversation and explanation of hang glider setup would go a long way toward educating us how to share the space with you guys.
As far as I know, most pilots are are very friendly people.

I will be posting a separate WCSC etiquette video in the coming weeks. Hopefully that will help.

It is already a part of the woodside site intro video on YouTube but maybe people weren't paying attention to that.

[James604]

Hi All,

I feel the frustration here as well, sometimes launches get pretty busy! But like any other frustrating situation, cooler heads always prevail. Lets try to lend a hand to those who are getting up to speed, and take a moment to communicate with our fellow pilots.

I've heard a couple different sides of this story and seems that opinions do differ greatly. Polite communication and inquiries will solve this (and most other things in life). Hands down.

Launch etiquette reminders/customs are here: https://www.westcoastsoaringclub.com/launch-courtesy/

[gussy11]

Please stop the practice of telling your students to drop their bags on the edges. At least at Mt. Woodside. Most sites the staging areas are obvious. But I think someone probably burned a pallet there and now the don't trust it anymore. Regardless, it's going to suck so much more if the hang gliders start setting up in the middle or the rear/lower staging area. setup on the edges to get out of way so they can use that beautifully clean mat to save their wings and launch rapid fire. The don't need that mat and could give a damn about it.

My sincerest apologies to the WCSC members for the clubs ineptitude in creating a meaningful launch etiquette guide that gives any real instruction other than to ask us to be nice. LOL.

I can't believe we wasted valuable alphabetical characters to tell people we don't want them to cuss (#4), and then expanded on it in #5 to tell people to be gentle and polite. #1 has a bloody addendum indicting the club that they have a problem with clarity on launch and #6 is about landing. Then there's another wastefully stupid sympathy ploy at the end reiterating #4 and #5! gas lighting me into thinking that if I just take a deep breath, have faith, things will go smoothly.

OOOF, and in all that redundancy, the club didn't think it would be good to mention that it shares vehicle access launches with an infinitely sexier delta wing commonly referred to as the hang glider!

In an effort to correct this imbalance, I suggest we inform the current and future pilots the truth about sharing launch with a

1. start by disappointing them that they didn't invest in flying a (you must do this, its a real shame they didn't know how awesome is)
2. inform them that pilots will setup wherever there is room, just like any , and we are just as eager to politely join that que along with the . But if you see a long, heavy bag unzip beside your foil and 2 pieces of aluminum tubing pop up out of that bag, eagerly find out if there was just a 1 meter strip along the edge for them to get away from you. Because he is about to F up your whole program.
3. are like an angry step father that doesn't care about your "situation" doesn't want the black mat/house, wants the edge/garage where he can get away from the sounds of /kids screaming from the treetops. So take the house, take the garage and lets avoid each other in the air.
4. doesn't care when your foil collapses in the wind and flops over . would use it as a tarp to protect it from the damaging sun or a blanket to stay warm in the wind. used to care about being swept off launch, but now thinks launch is better with gone
5. does not want you walking under our wings, over our battens or interrupting us during setup. The responding to you during setup is being a Canadian, and you are slowing down what is a long methodical process that we take too seriously.

"The list could go on, but we'll have to leave it at that."

[tonyev]

I sense a lot of 3:21am alcohol driven anger here.
Give us some time to put together an etiquette video/presentation as I mentioned above.
The WCSC is paying attention and we would some real constructive discussion with HG pilots on this.
It's an important issue.
PM me.

[gussy11]

What you are experiencing is someone giving it to you straight with a little humor mixed in.

I won't be PM'ing anyone when they start their public discourse with deflections about my alcohol usage.

The launch etiquette criticisms are born from James' link, that has zero reference to the birds that pioneered free flight and the woodside launch. A move the club should be considerably embarrassed about. It's no small thing to just leave out hang gliders. Its like, disrespectful and stuff. And in the end, telling people to be nice is redundant caretaking. Who's being mean? Because most pilots are super nice already, it just doesn't need to be mentioned, let alone over and over and over again.

[James604]

@Gussy11, what is your real name? A while back we made some changes in the forum to prevent anonymous usernames.

Couple of points below:

"apologies to the WCSC members for the clubs ineptitude in creating ...."
- Unfortunately (apparently), some people do in fact need to be reminded to be nice, and yes, it makes a giant difference. I've talked to several people who witnessed the incident sparking this discussion who aren't posting here, but who were blown away by how differently it could have been handled. Yes, busy launches can be frustrating, but cooler heads do always prevail.
- I agree, HG's are definitely sexier than cold air balloons. But no club volunteers want to get into an HG vs. PG pissing contest, it serves no purpose.

Zooming out to the big picture to address what's really at play here:

Whenever someone (rarely) berates "the club" I'm compelled to remind them what our club actually is and how it continues to exist. We're nothing more than a collection of volunteers and members who want to enjoy free flight. Most importantly, our volunteers selflessly donate thousands of hours a year to try to make our sport better and are the driving force behind our club's existence. Nothing kills a volunteer's passion and contribution (and therefore our club) faster than sideline ridicule. Do the volunteers profess to be perfect? No. Do we make mistakes? Absolutely. Can the club be run better? For sure. Does that require more people to step up who want to see positive change? You bet. Are those people encouraged to contribute? Yes!

Whenever anyone makes recommendations or shares ideas for making our sport better, this is a good thing. What's infinitely better is the same people stepping up to refine and implement those ideas, to the benefit of our members and sport.

@Gussy11 if you can contribute by creating and sharing a club launch etiquette guide that's an improvement (probably not all that difficult), it would be awesome!

Cheers,

James

[gussy11]

James, it sounds like you have some extra perspective from a shadow kabal of witnesses to an "incident" on launch that you feel sparked this discussion. Is that sorta correct?

Is this incident relevant to how hang gliders share launch with paragliders and if so, will the wcsc etiquette page help?

Now I'm not going sideline ridicule anyone in particular here, but the club did publish that inadequate etiquette guide and then you stood behind it like it was supposed to correct or at least steer paragliders in the right direction. It barely does either let alone telling people about . That's bordering on hilarious. It's a gaff, but nothing to feel berated about. Anyway, I'm glad you could point out so succinctly how much the club cares about I say the same thing reversed in 6 rules for sharing launch with a

Being a volunteer does not exclude you from criticism or oversight.

[Martin Zak]

Hey gussy11!

I am really not sure what are you trying to achieve by your posts (other than irritate people). Could you please put some effort into improving the article? (https://www.westcoastsoaringclub.com/launch-courtesy/) It admittedly does not consider HG on the launch but it is largely based on practice you see all around the world. Since most of us don't fly those sexy delta wings, we can hardly provide relevant input. Perhaps you could copy the whole article to google docs, make necessary improvements (concise, without irony or humor), and send it back to the board? I think it has a good potential to positively impact the situation on the launch. We can then share it in the newsletter.

Appreciate it!

Martin

[gussy11]

Hi Martin,
This is an awareness campaign.
The doesn't ask for much from , just the edges of the launches we have to share.

All the rest is irritating.

[Martin Zak]

How about this?

If you see a hang-glider pilot assembling his frame, provide them with ample space. Imagine the wing already assembled with its entire span. Ideally, dedicate the uncarpeted back of the launch to them as hang-gliders don't mind the exposed ground.

Feel free to improve or extend...

[gussy11]

How about this?

If you see a hang-glider pilot assembling his frame, provide them with ample space. Imagine the wing already assembled with its entire span. Ideally, dedicate the uncarpeted back of the launch to them as hang-gliders don't mind the exposed ground.

Feel free to improve or extend...

A representative will be in touch with the wcsc board shortly with a proposed new revised safety and etiquette guide for the website.

Cheers

[mikev]

Personally, if I know what a stranger needs and can help, I’ll initiate some courtesy, whether on the mountain, at the river, on the lake, sidewalk, or at the mall. I’ve noticed that most people are good like this. They’ll say stuff like, “Hey, let’s make some room for this wheelchair, or this trailer truck, or this damn cyclist.”

But the reality of approaching launch with my stiff, giant package (HG), to a herd of PGs is not so. No one bats an eye, tips a hat, or lifts a finger. If the herd is doing nothing, its effortless to do nothing with them. I can usually squirm in somewhere cause I’ve been snaking lines all my life. But not always.

We just need one champion at a time, to say, “Hey guys, let’s make way. Those attractive assholes with their stiff, gigantic packages are here.”

Just one hero at a time. Who are the leaders, the brave? The herd needs you to lead in all manner for a good day of flying.

As an HG, I’m extending courtesies to the PG mass all day long and I usually get the same back - but not always. Some bags seem to have an elitist outlook to HG: obvious stolen valour, since the main characteristic of elitism is to be part of a disproportionately small number of people. In which case HG would technically be the elite - but that’s an equally egotistic notion.

PG get to own the mountain 95% of the time - how amazing. Thus, the not-so-subtle grumblings from a bag lady or man, when a sporadic HG kindly asks for some space is pretty friggin savage, yeah?

- Asian guy with big, stiff package; flies like a fricken bird