Road to Woodside Launch....

[Martin]

Originally posted on the Members Only Page....

Road to Woodside Launch....
Post by Martin » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:38 am

Looking for some feedback into a possible solution our access issues into the Woodside launch.

This is just an idea that is just being kicked around so before anybody freaks out, post your thoughts (or send me a private note) and lets see if it has any merit with the members.

The proposal is to move the parking area to the base of the first "hump" on the access road (the last major climb over before the current "at launch parking"). We would gate/block or decommission the climb over section to vehicles. (Suggest leaving it intact for future service work). For launch access we would build a deluxe level grade trail that would follow the south contour of the "hump" and post/restrict to foot traffic only. (and we could build it in such a way that we can cut off the Quad's and 4x4's but perhaps not the motorcycles).

All pilots would gain access to the launch via this at grade foot path. Even as a rigid wing pilot I do not believe the distance is that big a deal, especially given the fact the proposal represents a level walk to the present parking area. The proposal also blocks easy vehicle access and the destructive groups that have continued to damage both access and our launch. We may also find it will dramatically cut down the party clowns that bring up pallets to burn on launch.

Like I said, would like some opinions on the idea.

Thanks

Martin (Grumpy)

[Martin]

We as a club have done plenty to USE our Mount Woodside flying site but have we done anything to PRESERVE it?

Given the pathetic response to my suggestion to take control and limit vehicle access in an effort to save the last lower mainland hang gliding site, I doubt it is worth my time to take lead on a project like this.

Pathetic end to a beautiful flying site.

Martin

[Suntan]

I fully support this idea.
I think the road will need to be fully decommissioned and gated.
I hope this will be a topic at the next meeting.
I'm still waiting for any sort of response from the Fraser Valley Mountain Biking Assoc. The regional district of Kent has put aside a bunch of money for mountain bike trail development on Woodside. The project was stalled due to Covid and now I'd venture to guess the road is an issue. I spoke with the Grader operator from the forestry who told me that the road is unfixable by light equipment. It will need a legit big cat to fix $$$$ it so basically we just need to be patient until the logging company wants to do another cut. I will reach out to the district of Kent and find out where the project is at.

[Liam Levesque]

I love the idea! Makes a ton of sense and could really limit the number of jerks accessing the launch for nefarious purposes...

Great idea Martin!

[Martin Zak]

Hey Martin,

I appreciate the proposal but could you please extend a bit more on the possible benefits of this?

As you said, it won't block motorcycles (a recent issue), it seems it will merely make the jerks and everybody else walks a bit further? I do think dumb often goes hand in hand with lazy. But do you think this will make any tangible difference?

Another thing to consider is the perception by the public. Many people come there to just enjoy the view and "show". Maybe worth encouraging decent folks to still hike there (e.g. with a sign). It could harm our perception by public (which we need to be good) if it looked like we are trying to restrict everybody from coming.

If it does get support, I'll surely come to join the work party.

[Suntan]

The main benefit is that it will reduce the amount of fires on launch. How many people are willing to pack pallets or blocks of wood in. I believe that we would also have significantly less vandalism.

[Martin]

I have a optimistic expectation of increasing the distance from the parking area to the actually launch is to indeed deter the short attention span of the drunken clowns that bust up the road, stagger out of their 4x4's to unload their nail filled pallets onto launch for idiot bonfires.... at our expense.

I'm not sure there will be any point in trying to gate the road as they will just rip it out. Likely we will need to "Tank Trap" the start of the hump and install the lightweight gate that we may have hiding up on launch right now (as a secondary deterrent). BTW, this proposal also means we will need to create a new parking area....(Oh and BTW, for the litigious cry babies that think we would not legally be able to decommission this road? It is not a legal FSR, it is a trail built by the club... so the club "giveth" and the club can "taketh" away.... or as the user agreement states "return to its original condition)

Well we may have become a tourist attraction but that's not our concern. If some whiner wants to complain, let them take it up with Tourism BC to fund and make safe and maintain the access, until they do, the public can walk. We built this launch for flying not for the gawkers. My experience, good people don't mind investing as short walk for what we all know is a great view (heck we could even go the extra distance and make sure the foot path meets "limited mobility" standards).

FYI, if there is any question things are out of control?.... Fly B.C. "Site of the day" mentioned some idiot DJ was set up on launch a little while back with speakers and amps and a fire curling up in the back. Its about freak'n time we make this a "flying site". We need to quit wimping around about hurting peoples feelings and taking away freedoms. We have more than 45 years of special use access on Woodside recognized by multiple layers of governments, we pay taxes, we have contribute to road maintenance, we've invested time and sweat into this place. Its about time we made the effort to protect it.

Martin

[Tom_Nichols]

I agree with Martin ... something needs to get done.

Let me know if anyone needs a hand.

[Martin]

Thanks, being honest here, As much as I'm a hot head about this topic, we are not going to find a swift solution.

First steps are assessing feasibility of a decommissioning process and map out alternate and acceptable access (trail).

There are other issues that may or may not work in our favor, one of which was mentioned above regarding the Kent district "mountain bike project" which includes a staging parking lot. The location and access could have a big effect on available services and funding.

Another interesting option is also kicking around.... I had a very informative conversation with an administrator of the Fraser Valley Regional District involving Sumas Mountain and access gate installed at the bottom of the mountain. This gate effectively closes mountain access over night. Since this is my back yard Mountain Bike area I invite anyone that is interested to come and visit the Sumas area an see the massive difference in how the mountain is treated and condition of the road. Its not perfect, they still get dumping and people still party on the mountain but its well known, you go up to party, you stay up or pay a tow company to let you off the mountain ($250?).... My conversation was not about doing the same thing but trying to get the perspective of the FVRD as to how well it works. To that end the administrator admitted it was time to have a look at Woodside (personally) and see if the difference was as dramatic as I suggested.

Martin

[pep]

I think that the road up to launch has at least 2 parts and probably can be addressed separately.
Part 1, the last 200 mts to the parking. and
Part 2 the road up from the bottom to the last 200 mts/

For the last 200 mts I am attaching a pic to ask if it is feasible to reroute this part over the north area on the other side of the trees, yellow is existing road, green is the one I like to know if it is possible, if we can do this I wound move the parking to the other side of the trees and leave the trees as a barrier for vehicles, then the walk is short and main area protected, the existing parking becomes Hang Gliding setup area.

for the second part, if the municipality of Kent is looking into bicycle trails, they will need to collaborate to fix the road up, I would explore with them the option of adding a gate at the bottom as you mention Martin, and have it open from 8 to 8,
And the work to maintain the road up could be a collaboration between the municipality, the down hill groups (if there is anything organized) and WCSC

[Martin]

Thanks Pep, Some points of interest....

Regarding the Mountain bike community. I will be in contact with Kent regarding this project but I believe the intent is to create a staging area. (Like all of our human interactions with nature... they require PARKING LOTS ) ... Likely at the bottom of the mountain. Accent would take place from he staging area and would disperse out into trail networks up the hill . We would then be sharing the road up with the MTB crew... which seems to work at Sumas.

More less what you posted with your photo is what my proposal is about. Drawing lines on a google earth map tho does not reflect the real world but it is a start.

What we can and can not do gets complicated depending on the need for equipment and the nature of the work and what existing features are in place. If we utilize our present access we have this option:

-The project starts at the base of "hump" ( The "hump being the last steep section on our road into launch that includes the climb up to the first parking pushout, then down to the launch area).

-Here, we brush out a turn-a-round/parking area. (this has not been assessed)

-We build a foot path around the south contour of the "Hump". For reference, road distance of the "Hump" is 126meters, The foot path is estimated at 140 meters. No grades have been measured and Google elevation data is useless as the rounding calculations are 100meters and based on elevation smoothing. GPS and Barometric elevations need to be taken.

-We "Tank Trap"/Decommission the road at the Start of the "Hump". I don't think we have the financial resources nor legal authority to actual install a serious gate. We may be able to get away with a combination of a simple gate, signs and a minor decommissioning so we can retain some of the road for future service work...but the a-holes are resourceful and don't give a crap about what they do to the mountain.

(Short term, this is what I think we can get away with... no equipment on the mountain, all hand work and no harvestable/market timber involved).

The Proposal involving the north approach. Whole different story.... I believe there is a active woodlot so joint permissions would be required. Also, equipment will be required and the area does include a NEW forest service road. The new rules are getting pretty tough on equipment owners heading off into the bush so for now this approach looks out of the question without a lengthy forestry proposal. I don't reject the idea but its much more complicated. Toss in the raw nature of the topography and substantial different elevation profiles... might be an expensive proposition.

I've outlined what is within our means as a club but again, the Hangs have to be onboard with the idea. We don't want to push this through then go through a bunch of sniveling that the hike is too far! Also, I'm pretty sure of a few things...

The garbage and the fires will just move out to the proposed parking area. The vengeful dicks that are doing the damage now may just up their game and go nuts on the decommissioned road. Any vehicles parked out of view (from launch) will likely see vandalism... much like what we already see at the bottom of the mountain.

Martin

[Martin]

A bit of back story regarding the Sumas road access gate....

There is a long history of who and why the gate is in place but right now, the City of Abbotsford administers opening and closing schedule. They have hired a local towing company to provide emergency opening (for a fee ). Responsibility has been tossed around to various parties but at this point in time the reason for the City of Abbotsford being involved is because the Abbotsford Fire Department wants to prevent fire incidents because of the number of people that now live on the mountain. Realistically, same issue is now a concern for Woodside as I regularly witness idiots leaving smoldering fires on the mountain. Like it or Not, the district of Kent should have some motivation to gate/manage mountain access.

BTW, This sword cuts both ways... it may bring under control the damage we see on the mountain but we could easily find ourselves locked off the hill by the district if a some bureaucracy decides fire risk is too high....

Martin

[the other martin]

When I lived on Vancouver Island our primary site was Mount Prevost. It was gated. The local forestry officer who was employed by the Municipality of North Cowichan/Duncan would lock the gate every summer. It would be locked by the end of June and remain locked until late summer. Done. We pilots didn't have a key nor were we given any leeway. The reasoning was 'fire hazard'. A monsoon wouldn't change his mind about a fire hazard. It was less work for him just to keep everyone off the mountain.

I would strongly recommend our club work with nature. Boulders, trenches, pathways, stiles, and any other natural impediment we could use to discourage vehicular traffic but yet encourage foot traffic.

Introducing other interested parties to the dance could be a curse more than a blessing. Presently we have an incredible launch and are the primary care givers. I think we should keep it that way and keep it low key.

[James604]

Hi all,

I think a relocated parking lot would have considerable benefit to keeping riff raff off launch for reasons posted above, and have a minimal impact on WCSC members as the current lot location is nearly inaccessible anyways. Alex R. noted there's some swampy area in the proposed relocation area.. hopefully it's not too bad/can be drained.

A contour line trail around the bump (as long as the HG crew is ok with it) would likely be relatively easy from a trail building standpoint, but we''ll have to do some surveying.

The largest hurdle is likely getting approval from forestry for installing a gate... but if there's enough consensus here we'll look into that.

A note on the rest of the road in general - I'll still be working on getting Western Canadian Forestry to grade it, but long term once the road is "re commissioned" for their industrial logging use, it'll be in good shape again for us. Eventually, it'll be "de commissioned" again, but at that point, I hope to negotiate minimal cross ditching and leaving the road is as good as possible condition as possible.

[Martin]

Apparently not that hard to close a road up on Mount Woodside ....(I think I saw an old pip pin from UP Dragonfly....... "artifact on site")